Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Sukkos GNBCh and RKBSh; Sukkah Yeshanah
סוכה ישנה
Sukkah 8b · Wednesday, July 15, 2026
The sugya
The shiur finished the Braisos of sukkas GNBCh and sukkas RKBSh: each counts as a sukkah if it is covered properly for shade, and each Tanna includes the other category through 'mikol makom'. It then learned the Mishnah of sukkah yeshanah (Beis Shammai posul, Beis Hillel kosher), and connected it to the earlier sugya of the potters' sukkos. It closed with the Gemara's source for Beis Shammai, Chag haSukkos shivas yamim laHashem, and Beis Hillel's use of the same pasuk for Rav Sheshes and R' Yehuda ben Beseira, with a review.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- GemaraTanu Rabbanan: sukkas GNBCh, the sukkah of goyim, women, animals and Kusim, is kosher as long as it is covered k'hilchasa. A fifth category, 'sukkah mikol makom', is also kosher.
- GemaraRav Chisda explains k'hilchasa: it was made for shade. The Rebbi corrected his own misreading here.
- GemaraSukkah mikol makom comes to include sukkas RKBSh.
- GemaraA parallel Braisa lists sukkas RKBSh: shepherds, fruit dryers (kayatzim), guardsmen (burganin) and orchard watchers (shomrei peiros). The same condition of k'hilchasa applies, and its mikol makom comes to include sukkas GNBCh.
- KashaWhy does each Tanna list one group explicitly and include the other through mikol makom?
- TeirutzFor the Tanna of GNBCh, GNBCh is stronger because those sukkos are kavua in their place. Mikol makom adds RKBSh, which are not kavua and move around.
- The RebbiThe Rebbi noted this is an unusual style. Usually the Gemara says 'this, and of course that'.
- TeirutzFor the Tanna of RKBSh, RKBSh is stronger because they are bnei chiyuva. Mikol makom adds GNBCh, who are not bnei chiyuva. One might have thought a sukkah must be built by someone obligated in the mitzvah.
- MishnahMishnah: sukkah yeshanah. Beis Shammai say it is posul, Beis Hillel say it is kosher. Sukkah yeshanah means anything made more than 30 days before the Chag. But if it was made l'shem Chag, even at the beginning of the year, it is kosher.
- The RebbiA sukkah left standing from year to year, with new schach put on each year, is what is meant by sukkah yeshanah.
- The RebbiYashan (old), yashen (sleep), sheinah and shanah all come from the same root.
- The Rebbi'Old' does not mean brittle or moldy. It means it was put up more than 30 days before the Chag. For example, a sukkah put up during the Nine Days would be posul according to Beis Shammai.
- ShitahA sukkah put up, say, in November not l'shem Chag is fine according to Beis Hillel, and we hold like Beis Hillel.
- RashiRashi says the earlier sugya of the potters' sukkos is obviously not according to Beis Shammai, who would have the problem of sukkah yeshanah.
- The RebbiEven according to Beis Hillel, the potter cannot simply keep living as before. He must change his behavior, moving to the outer sukkah, to show he is doing it for Sukkos. He does not need to change the structure.
- The RebbiThat whole sugya of the inner and outer sukkos only works according to Beis Hillel.
- KashaQuestion raised in the shiur: why not allow a sukkah made a decade before?
- TeirutzThe Rebbi suggested, tentatively ('I don't know'), that the clock has to reset: you must have done something for Sukkos.
- GemaraMai taama d'Beis Shammai: the pasuk says Chag haSukkos shivas yamim laHashem, with the stress on laHashem. We need a sukkah made l'shem Chag.
- KashaThis seems like checkmate. What will Beis Hillel do with the pasuk?
- TeirutzBeis Hillel need the pasuk for Rav Sheshes in the name of R' Akiva: the atzei sukkah are assur all seven days.
- The RebbiThe atzei sukkah are like muktzah. You live in the sukkah, but you may not use the walls for other purposes, such as putting on or taking off decorations.
- GemaraTanya, R' Yehuda ben Beseira: just as shem shamayim falls on the Chagigah, so it falls on the sukkah, from the same pasuk. Mah chag laHashem, af sukkah laHashem.
- The RebbiChag in the pasuk refers to the korban Shalmei Chagigah, which Hashem 'takes over'. There are halachos about when it may be eaten. Likewise the sukkah belongs to Hashem with no other usage, which the Rebbi thinks also refers to muktzah.
- ChazarahReview of the Mishnah, the Gemara's source for Beis Shammai, and Beis Hillel's use of the pasuk for Rav Sheshes and R' Yehuda ben Beseira.
- The RebbiThe korban Chagigah is restricted until the eimurim are burned.
- ChazarahThe same pasuk appears three times in the sugya. The first time it is Beis Shammai's source (build the sukkah for Sukkos). The next two times it is Beis Hillel's use (the sukkah's walls are exclusively for Sukkos).
Kashas
- Why does the Tanna of GNBCh list GNBCh and include RKBSh through mikol makom, while the Tanna of RKBSh does the reverse?
- Why can't a sukkah from a decade before be used? (question in the shiur)
- Mai taama d'Beis Shammai?
- How do Beis Hillel deal with the pasuk Chag haSukkos shivas yamim laHashem?
Teirutzim
- GNBCh is stronger to its Tanna because those sukkos are kavua. RKBSh, which are not kavua, is the chiddush of mikol makom.
- RKBSh is stronger to its Tanna because they are bnei chiyuva. GNBCh, who are not, is the chiddush of mikol makom.
- Tentatively: the clock has to reset, so that something was done for Sukkos.
- Beis Hillel use the pasuk for Rav Sheshes (atzei sukkah assur kol shivah) and for R' Yehuda ben Beseira (shem shamayim chal al hasukkah).
Rashi & Tosafos
- Rashi: The sugya of the potters' sukkos is obviously not according to Beis Shammai, because of the problem of sukkah yeshanah.
Mareh mekomos
- Pasuk: Chag haSukkos shivas yamim laHashem. Beis Shammai's source for a sukkah made l'shem Chag; used by Beis Hillel for Rav Sheshes and R' Yehuda ben Beseira.
- Rav Sheshes in the name of R' Akiva: atzei sukkah assurin kol shivah.
- Braisa of R' Yehuda ben Beseira comparing the sukkah to the korban Chagigah.
- The earlier sugya of the two potters' sukkos, connected to sukkah yeshanah.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- Unusual style: each Tanna states the stronger case explicitly, whereas usually the Gemara says 'this, and of course that'.
- Yashan, yashen, sheinah and shanah share one root.
- According to Beis Hillel the structure need not change, but one's behavior must show the sukkah is for Yom Tov, as with the potter moving to the outer sukkah.
- Atzei sukkah being assur is like muktzah, e.g. decorations may not be put on or taken off the walls.
- Af sukkah laHashem means no other usage, which the Rebbi thinks also refers to muktzah.
- Track the pasuk's three appearances: once for Beis Shammai, twice for Beis Hillel.
Unclear in recording
- A remark about the sukkah being 'made for sale' (perhaps 'shade') is unclear in recording.
- The reason given for the 30-day period, a halacha about the 30 days before Yom Tov after which one is 'already in the Chag', is unclear in recording.
- A remark that this Mishnah really continues or belongs before the previous material, and whether the Mishnayos count it as one or two, is unclear in recording.
- A remark about picking up and putting down the sukkah, and about built-in sukkos, is unclear in recording.
- A remark about rebuilding a sukkah that fell versus other halachos about the walls is partly unclear in recording.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.