Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Sleeping-Under-the-Bed Braisa; Sukkah Supported on Bedposts
הסומך סוכתו בכרעי המטה
Sukkah 21b · Tuesday, November 4, 2025
The sugya
The shiur finished the braisa of R' Shimon about what we learned from the 'sichah' (casual conversation) of Rabban Gamliel, and the Gemara's lesson that even the casual talk of talmidei chachamim needs study. It then began the new Mishnah of הסומך סוכתו בכרעי המטה, where the Chachamim say the sukkah is kosher and R' Yehuda says it is pasul if it cannot stand on its own. The Gemara asks for R' Yehuda's reason. R' Zeira and R' Abba bar Mamel argue about it. The shiur explained the first reason, that it has no keva, with Rashi, and stopped as the second reason was being introduced.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- ChazarahBraisa: R' Shimon says that from the casual conversation of Rabban Gamliel we learned two things. The two points themselves are unclear in recording.
- KashaThe Gemara asks: why use the fancy word 'sichaso'? Let it simply say 'midevarav shel Rabban Gamliel'.
- TeirutzMilsa agav orcha: the wording teaches something on the side. Even the casual conversation of talmidei chachamim needs study. The Gemara brings this through a chain of Amoraim in the name of Rav.
- The RebbiWe learn nothing new from this braisa beyond our Mishnah. The point of the unusual word is only to teach this extra lesson.
- Ra'ayahThe pasuk speaks of a tree with deep roots and a trunk, whose leaves do not wither. The leaf is the lightest part of the tree, yet even that must be paid attention to.
- ChazarahThe new Mishnah again has R' Yehuda and the idea of keva. A talmid also mentions mekabel tumah as something familiar.
- Mishnahהסומך סוכתו בכרעי המטה: one who rests his sukkah on the posts of his bed. The Chachamim say it is kosher.
- MachlokesR' Yehuda: if it cannot stand on its own, it is pasul. Here 'sukkah' really means the schach, which may not be held up only by the bed.
- The Tanna Kamma here is the Chachamim, meaning the consensus. Rebbi (R' Yehuda HaNasi) wrote down the Mishnayos and did not necessarily divide them up himself.
- The RebbiPreview: if the schach rests on its own good pillars and is not attached to the bed, it is fine. If the bed is moved, the schach stays in place.
- Gemaraמאי טעמא דר׳ יהודה: what is R' Yehuda's reason? Knowing the reason matters, because it decides which cases work and which do not.
- MachlokesR' Zeira and R' Abba bar Mamel argue about R' Yehuda's reason. The Tanna did not state a reason in the Mishnah, so the Amoraim supply it.
- ShitahOne says: because it has no keva (permanence). We do not know which Amora says which reason.
- RashiRashi: a bed is movable. It is furniture that goes from corner to corner, so the schach on it simply moves with the bed. A sukkah needs keva.
- ShitahThe other opinion begins 'mipnei...'. The shiur stops here, before it is explained.
Kashas
- Why does the braisa say 'sichaso shel Rabban Gamliel' instead of the plain 'midevarav shel Rabban Gamliel'?
- What is R' Yehuda's reason for passling a sukkah supported on bedposts?
Teirutzim
- Milsa agav orcha: the wording teaches that even the casual conversation of talmidei chachamim needs study.
- One Amora says R' Yehuda's reason is that it has no keva.
Rashi & Tosafos
- Rashi: A bed is movable. Rashi specifically uses that word. The schach just moves with the bed, so there is no keva.
Mareh mekomos
- The pasuk about a tree whose leaves do not wither. It is the source that even the 'leaf', the casual talk of talmidei chachamim, must be studied.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- The braisa adds nothing to the halacha beyond our Mishnah. Its value lies in the lesson hinted by the word 'sichah'.
- The leaf is the lightest part of the tree, yet even it does not wither. So too, even the lightest words of a chacham deserve attention.
- In this Mishnah, 'sukkah' should be understood as the schach.
- Tanna Kamma means the Chachamim, the consensus view. Rebbi compiled the Mishnayos without necessarily dividing them.
- If the schach is held by independent pillars and stays put when the bed is moved, it is fine.
- Knowing the reason behind a shita determines which cases are kosher and which are not.
Unclear in recording
- The two things learned from Rabban Gamliel's conversation are not clearly heard.
- The chain of Amoraim who say the statement in the name of Rav is garbled.
- A side discussion about the sukkah needing keva for seven days is partly cut off.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.