Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Gud Asik: Amud and Four Kundeisin
Sukkah 4b · Monday, May 11, 2026
The sugya
The shiur finished the case of a sukkah over 20 amos with an amud 10 tefachim high. Abaye wants to say gud asik; Rava rejects this because the walls are not recognisable. It then began the braisa of four kundeisin (posts) with schach on top, where R' Yaakov is machshir and the Chachamim are posel. Rav Huna and Rav Nachman disagree about where the machlokes is, and the Gemara asks what Rav Nachman meant, ending in teku.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- GemaraCase: a sukkah taller than 20 amos in which one built an amud 10 tefachim high with room for a hechsher sukkah on top (7 by 7 tefachim). The Rebbi noted that something 10 tefachim high is its own reshus.
- ShitahAbaye wanted to say gud asik mechitzasa: take the 10-tefach sides of the amud and stretch them up, so the schach is now within 20 amos of the sukkah.
- DechiyahSee next entry.
- DechiyahRava: ba'inan mechitzos hanikaros v'leka. A sukkah, a dirah, needs recognisable walls, and here there are none.
- GemaraNew braisa: one planted (na'atz) four kundeisin (posts) and put schach on top of them. R' Yaakov is machshir and the Chachamim are posel. There is no height problem here. The Rebbi noted it sounds crazy, since there are no walls at all.
- ShitahRav Huna: the machlokes is on the edge of the roof (sfas hagag), where the posts stand at the very edge. R' Yaakov holds we say gud asik mechitzasa, and the Rabbanan hold we do not.
- KashaHow can R' Yaakov say gud asik here if Rava required mechitzos hanikaros by the amud?
- TeirutzHere there are already the walls of a house. We are not turning a mere amud into a mechitzah. The house walls are mechitzos nikaros already.
- GemaraLine 14 (Rav Huna continued): but in the middle of the roof, all agree it is pasul.
- The RebbiThe Rebbi asked what the hava amina would be to make it kosher in the middle. There is a tzad to view the four corner posts as forming something around you, like the pasei bira'os mentioned earlier.
- ShitahRav Nachman: the machlokes is in the middle of the roof. R' Yaakov and the Chachamim are the Tanna'im; Rav Huna and Rav Nachman are the Amora'im.
- KashaIbaya lehu: did Rav Nachman mean that the machlokes is in the middle, but on the edge all agree it is kosher? Or did he mean the machlokes applies in both cases (bein bezu bein bezu)?
- The RebbiFirst side: on the edge everyone would agree, because there is a building with walls to pull up with gud asik.
- RashiSecond side: Rashi says the posts were a tefach wide, so they can be pictured like pasin. If there is no difference between edge and middle, R' Yaakov is not using gud asik but the four posts surrounding you as a kind of mechitzah.
- MaskanaThe Gemara ends with teku, which the Rebbi noted is the first teku of the year.
Kashas
- How does R' Yaakov's gud asik on the roof fit with Rava's requirement of mechitzos hanikaros?
- According to Rav Huna, what would be the hava amina to say it is kosher in the middle of the roof?
- Ibaya: according to Rav Nachman, is the edge of the roof kosher according to all, or is there a machlokes in both places?
Teirutzim
- On the roof there are already house walls, which are mechitzos nikaros. This is unlike making an amud into a mechitzah.
- Teku: the question is left unresolved.
Rashi & Tosafos
- Rashi: The kundeisin were a tefach wide, not thin poles.
Mareh mekomos
- Rava's din of mechitzos hanikaros is applied back to the braisa of the kundeisin.
- The pasei bira'os, mentioned earlier, as a model for posts forming an enclosure.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- Mechitzos hanikaros is a din in sukkah: whatever tricks you use, a sukkah must look like a shelter, the way a person lives.
- If R' Yaakov is machshir even in the middle of the roof, his reason must be the four tefach-wide posts surrounding you, not gud asik.
- Teku literally means it remains a safek. He also taught it as the acronym his father, his 5th grade Rebbe, taught: Tishbi (Eliyahu) will answer our questions.
Unclear in recording
- The exact daf named at the start.
- The discussion of dofen akumah together with gud asik.
- The discussion about a roof needing a ma'akeh.
- The halachic ramifications of teku: whether one may leave the sukkah if already built.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.