Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Chamasah from walls; sukkah diras keva list
סוכה דירת קבע בעינן
Sukkah 7b · Wednesday, June 24, 2026
The sugya
The shiur finished the Mishnah's din that a sukkah whose sun is more than its shade is pasul. It covered the Braisa's machlokes whether sun coming in through the walls also counts, R' Yoshiya's source from the paroches, and the Rabbanan's answer. Most of the shiur went through Abaye's list of Tannaim who all hold sukkah diras keva ba'inan. The Rebbi stressed that each one holds a different degree and kind of permanence, and that the positions are relative to each other. He ended by previewing tomorrow's question of how to measure a round sukkah.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- MishnahLine 10: a sukkah whose sun is more than its shade is pasul.
- MachlokesBraisa: the sun that makes it pasul is sun coming in because of sparse schach, not because of sparse walls. R' Yoshiya says even sun through the walls makes it pasul.
- The RebbiThe Rebbi called R' Yoshiya's view a big chiddush not found before. It would affect lucite walls, lattice walls, walls of rope or poles, or even three walls with one side open. We do not hold like R' Yoshiya.
- Side discussion on screen walls. They would need bars, must be strong enough, and must not wave back and forth in the wind.
- Ra'ayahR' Yeimar bar Shelamya in the name of Abaye gives R' Yoshiya's source: the pasuk 'v'sakosa al ha'aron es haparoches'. The paroches is a mechitzah, and the Torah calls it sechach. So a mechitzah must be like schach, and sun coming through the walls is also a problem.
- ShitahThe Rebbi said there is a further question on R' Yoshiya: must the walls actually be made of schach material, or is it only a matter of sun and shade?
- DechiyahThe Rabbanan say that pasuk means the paroches should be bent over a little at the top so that it looks like schach, not that every mechitzah must be like schach.
- GemaraAbaye lists Rebbi, R' Yoshiya, R' Yehuda, R' Shimon, Rabban Gamliel, Beis Shammai, R' Eliezer and Acheirim. He says all of them hold a sukkah must be a diras keva (some level of permanence).
- TosafosRashi does not say much about this list. Tosafos says some of these Tannaim do not necessarily agree with each other; they hold different degrees of diras keva.
- ShitahRebbi: a sukkah without 4 amos by 4 amos is pasul. This is not a structural requirement. But requiring a size much bigger than 6 or 7 tefachim shows that a sukkah needs more permanence.
- ShitahR' Yoshiya: the walls must have significance and shading properties, which puts him on the side of more permanence.
- Side discussion whether this R' Yoshiya is a Tanna or an Amora. The conclusion was that he is a Tanna.
- ShitahR' Yehuda: a sukkah higher than 20 amos is kosher. That is a more keva structure, so he leans toward keva.
- ShitahR' Shimon: the Chachamim say two proper walls and a third of even a tefach. R' Shimon requires one more wall, so he is more keva relative to his counterpart.
- KashaA talmid challenged whether R' Shimon's extra wall really shows keva, compared with three walls made of screen. The Rebbi accepted the challenge ('objection sustained').
- ShitahRabban Gamliel: a sukkah on top of a wagon (a wobbly wagon) or on top of a boat is pasul.
- ShitahBeis Shammai: Mishnah in the second perek about one whose head and most of his body are in the sukkah but his table is in the house. Explained as: 6 is too small and you need 7, so he is more keva.
- The RebbiRebbi requires 4 by 4 amos, far more than Beis Shammai, yet both are on the same keva team. Where one stands depends on whom he is compared to. The Rebbi gave a mashal of a public figure who said he never moved; the world around him shifted.
- ShitahR' Eliezer, in a Mishnah not yet learned: a sukkah shaped like a tzrif (a teepee) or leaned against a wall is pasul because it has no defined roof. Pictures were shown.
- ShitahAcheirim, in a Braisa: a sukkah made like a shovach (literally a chicken coop, meaning a round sukkah) is pasul because it has no corners. This is not necessarily because of its size; it lacks defined walls.
- Preview of tomorrow: everything learned so far uses square sizes (6x7, 7x7, 6x6, 4 by 4 amos). How do you measure the size of a round sukkah?
- ChazarahQuick read-through of Abaye's list, counting lines 20 through 33.
Kashas
- How does R' Shimon's requirement of an additional wall show more keva than, for example, three walls made of screen? The Rebbi accepted the challenge.
- If all sizes learned so far are square measures, how do you measure a round sukkah? (Left for tomorrow.)
Teirutzim
- The Rabbanan answer R' Yoshiya's proof: the paroches was called sechach only because its top was bent over a little so it looks like schach.
- Rebbi and Beis Shammai can both be on the keva side despite very different sizes, because keva here is relative to each one's counterpart.
Rashi & Tosafos
- Tosafos: Some of the Tannaim in Abaye's list do not necessarily agree with each other; each holds a different degree of diras keva.
- Rashi: Does not say much about Abaye's list.
Mareh mekomos
- Pasuk 'v'sakosa al ha'aron es haparoches': R' Yoshiya's source that a mechitzah must be like schach.
- Braisa of Rebbi requiring 4 by 4 amos, quoted several times before.
- R' Yehuda's view that a sukkah higher than 20 amos is kosher.
- Braisa of the Chachamim and R' Shimon on how many proper walls are needed.
- Braisa of Rabban Gamliel: a sukkah on a wagon or a boat is pasul.
- Mishnah in the second perek: head and most of the body in the sukkah, table in the house (Beis Shammai).
- Mishnah of R' Eliezer on a sukkah like a tzrif or leaning on a wall.
- Braisa of Acheirim on a sukkah made like a shovach.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- R' Yoshiya's view would invalidate lucite, lattice, rope or pole walls, or an open side; we do not hold like him.
- Diras keva is a sliding scale. A sukkah is basically a temporary dwelling for seven days, yet it still needs some level of permanence.
- The positions in Abaye's list are relative; one is 'right' or 'left' only compared to his counterpart.
- Acheirim's problem with a round sukkah is the lack of corners and defined walls, not necessarily its size.
Unclear in recording
- Opening words ('Tzaddi Gemara, last dine of the day').
- Reference to 'the first Rashi' about the word schach.
- Whether R' Yehuda's view is also brought in the second perek, and a talmid's remark that R' Yehuda does not say a sukkah under 20 is pasul.
- The ruling attributed to Beis Shammai is garbled.
- Most of the final read-through.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.