Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Noyei Sukkah: Lowering, Shrinking, and Distance
נויי סוכה
Sukkah 10b · from line 2 · Tuesday, September 15, 2026
The sugya
The shiur covers the Gemara's halachos of noyei sukkah (sukkah decorations). Noyei sukkah hanging from the top do not lower the sukkah, but Rav Ashi holds that from the side they do shrink it. The shiur then learns the story of Minyamin's wet shirt drying on the schach, and the machlokes about noyei sukkah hanging more than four tefachim below the schach, with the story of Rav Chisda and Rabbah bar Rav Huna at the Reish Galusa. The Rebbi reviewed the sugya and closed with a discussion of whether Rav Nachman's seating of them involved lifnei iver.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- GemaraItmar: noyei sukkah ein mema'atin. A sukkah above 20 amos does not become kosher because a sheet hangs underneath as decoration. Likewise, a sukkah exactly 10 tefachim high is not pasul because of a sheet hanging under the schach.
- KashaThe obvious question: this should be like an earlier case (reference unclear in recording), where hanging items do affect the sukkah.
- TosafosTosafos answers that the earlier case is a repulsive dwelling ('dirah srucha', garbled in recording). Branches hanging down below schach set at exactly 10 tefachim get in the way of sitting, which ruins the sukkah. A nice decorative sheet hanging underneath is not repulsive.
- ShitahRav Ashi: noyei sukkah from the side do shrink the sukkah. If the sukkah is exactly seven by seven and a carpet hangs on the wall, perhaps slightly away from it, the sukkah is now less than seven by seven and is pasul.
- GemaraMinyamin, Rav Ashi's servant, spread his soaking-wet shirt over the sukkah to dry. Rav Ashi told him to remove it, lest people say one may use for schach something that is mekabel tumah.
- KashaMinyamin answered that people can see it is wet, so they know it is only there to dry.
- TeirutzRav Ashi replied: I meant once it dries, then take it off.
- MachlokesItmar: noyei sukkah more than four tefachim below the schach. Rav Nachman says kosher. Rav Chisda and Rabbah bar Rav Huna say pasul.
- The RebbiThese are the same two who said earlier (reference garbled in recording) that in sukkah tachas sukkah there must be four tefachim between the top and bottom sukkah. Seemingly it is the same reason here: noyei sukkah become, in a way, part of the sukkah, but more than four tefachim away they are no longer part of it.
- GemaraRav Chisda and Rabbah bar Rav Huna visited the Reish Galusa for Sukkos. Rav Nachman, who disagreed with them, was the Reish Galusa's son-in-law and in charge of assigning places. He placed them where the noyei sukkah hung more than four tefachim down, to prove his point.
- Discussion of the word 'agnei'. Suggestions were to visit, to assign them, or (from 'magen') to protect or place them under. This was left uncertain.
- GemaraThey stayed silent and remained there. Rav Nachman asked: have the Rabbanan retracted from their position? They answered: we are shluchei mitzvah and are patur from sukkah.
- What the mitzvah was is unclear in recording (mention of something learned from the Isha HaShunamis).
- Elsewhere the Gemara (reference unclear in recording) tells of the same two sleeping on the riverbanks, also as shluchei mitzvah.
- The RebbiEveryone had an assigned place by the Reish Galusa; this was where they stayed, not just where they slept. If the Reish Galusa called for them and they had moved elsewhere in the sukkah, they would miss the whole point of the trip. The mitzvah was to be with the Reish Galusa.
- ChazarahReview of the sugya from Itmar noyei sukkah through the story at the Reish Galusa.
- The RebbiWhy from the side shrinks but from the top does not lower: (1) hanging from the top is just an inconvenience of being too low, but if one cannot fit inside, the sukkah is pasul. (2) Alternatively, 10 tefachim height is either halacha l'Moshe miSinai or learned from the Keruvim, whereas seven by seven is 'sort of arbitrary'.
- Discussion of whether Rav Nachman violated lifnei iver by placing them under noyei sukkah he held kosher and they held pasul. Some hold it is not lifnei iver, since they saw it, knew, and could choose to move. If he had placed them there at night and they could not see, it might have been a lifnei iver problem.
Kashas
- Why don't noyei sukkah hanging below the schach affect the sukkah, like the earlier case (reference unclear in recording)?
- Minyamin: people can see the shirt is wet, so they won't think it is schach.
- How could Rav Nachman put them in a place they held pasul? Isn't that lifnei iver?
Teirutzim
- Tosafos: the earlier case is a repulsive dwelling with branches getting in the way; a nice sheet is not.
- Rav Ashi: I meant remove it once it dries.
- Not lifnei iver, since they saw it and had the opportunity to move. At night, unaware, it might have been a problem.
Rashi & Tosafos
- Tosafos: Distinguishes noyei sukkah from the earlier case of hanging branches. The branches make the sukkah repulsive and get in the way of sitting; a nice decorative sheet does not.
Mareh mekomos
- Earlier Gemara (reference garbled in recording): Rav Chisda and Rabbah bar Rav Huna require four tefachim between the two sukkos in sukkah tachas sukkah. Cited as the same reasoning as here.
- Another Gemara (reference unclear in recording): the same two slept on the riverbanks as shluchei mitzvah.
- 10 tefachim height is halacha l'Moshe miSinai or learned from the Keruvim.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- Noyei sukkah are in a way part of the sukkah, but beyond four tefachim they are no longer part of it.
- Their mitzvah was being with the Reish Galusa in their assigned seats; moving would have meant missing his call.
- Top vs. side: lowering is only an inconvenience, but not fitting inside passuls the sukkah.
- Alternatively: 10 tefachim is halacha l'Moshe miSinai or from the Keruvim, while seven by seven is 'sort of arbitrary'.
Unclear in recording
- Exact daf/amud statement garbled.
- Which earlier case the kasha compares to.
- Phrase after 'four tefachim is considered...' garbled.
- Meaning of 'agnei' left uncertain.
- What the mitzvah was and the reference to the Isha HaShunamis.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.