Shiur summary (draft from the recording)
Animal as Sukkah Wall: Death or Running Away
בפיל קשור
Sukkah 23a · Tuesday, November 25, 2025
The sugya
The sugya asks how the Gemara pictures the machlokes between Abaye (gezeirah shema tamus) and R' Zeira (gezeirah shema tivrach) about using an animal as a dofen for a sukkah. After reviewing the two versions, a tied elephant and a tied smaller animal, the shiur covered a series of short kashas on the premise. These were the gap between the animal's legs, the animal crouching, and why death matters if the animal is hung from above. The shiur ended in the middle of the answer that sometimes the animal is placed within less than three tefachim of the schach.
Step by step (shakla v’tarya)
- ChazarahReview: by a tied elephant (pil kashur) everyone agrees it is kosher. Even if it dies, its carcass still has ten tefachim, since it is a huge animal.
- MachlokesLine 36: by an untied elephant there is a machlokes. According to Abaye (shema tamus) we are not concerned, because it is still tall enough. According to R' Zeira (shema tivrach) we are concerned, because it can run away.
- KashaLine 38: according to Abaye, who is concerned it might die, shouldn't we also suspect it will run away?
- TeirutzLine 39, elah: by an untied elephant everyone agrees we are concerned it might run away. They argue by a tied, smaller animal. Abaye is concerned, because death will make it shrink and there will be no wall. R' Zeira is not concerned, because it is tied.
- KashaLine 42: according to R' Zeira, who is concerned it might run away, shouldn't we also be concerned it might die?
- TeirutzMisa lo shechicha: death is not common, so it is not a concern one has to keep in mind.
- MaskanaSummary: according to Abaye both shema tamus and shema tivrach are concerns. According to R' Zeira only shema tivrach is a concern, because death is not common.
- Plan: finish a few small questions on this sugya, then move on to the question about whether we suspect for death (R' Meir and R' Yehuda).
- KashaLine 43, v'ha'ika revcha d'beini beini: the space between the animal's front and back legs is not a wall, and a wall of ten tefachim is needed.
- TeirutzAvid leih b'hutza v'dafna: he wove a fence of palm branches and bay leaves between its legs, like a table skirt.
- KashaLine 44, v'dilma rav'ah: maybe the animal will crouch. Then even a tied animal of exactly the right size will be missing the shiur.
- TeirutzIt is hung (mesicha) with ropes (ashlei) from above (mil'eil), without slack, so it cannot crouch. Being tied, it also cannot run away.
- KashaLine 44-45: according to Abaye (shema tamus) too, the animal is hung by ropes from above. So let it die; it stays suspended. Why is death a concern?
- The RebbiPreview of the answer: if the animal is exactly the shiur, when it dies and dries out it can lose that little amount.
- TeirutzLine 45, zimnin d'mukim leih b'pachos mishelosha samuch l'schach: sometimes one places the animal within less than three tefachim of the schach. Through lavud, a wall of just over seven tefachim within three tefachim of the schach is kosher. Recording ends mid-explanation.
Kashas
- According to Abaye (shema tamus), shouldn't we also worry shema tivrach?
- According to R' Zeira (shema tivrach), shouldn't we also worry shema tamus?
- V'ha'ika revcha d'beini beini: the gap between the legs is not a wall.
- V'dilma rav'ah: maybe the animal will crouch and lose the shiur.
- According to Abaye, since the animal is hung from above anyway, why does it matter if it dies?
Teirutzim
- Recast the machlokes. By an untied elephant all are concerned it will run away. They argue by a tied animal: Abaye is concerned for death (shrinking), R' Zeira is not.
- Misa lo shechicha: death is not common.
- He wove a fence of hutza v'dafna (palm branches and bay leaves) between the legs.
- It is hung with ropes from above without slack, so it cannot crouch.
- Sometimes the animal is placed within less than three tefachim of the schach (using lavud), at exactly the shiur. Then the shrinking at death is a problem.
Rashi & Tosafos
- Rashi: Rashi points out that even with a living animal, the space between its legs is not a wall.
The Rebbi’s chiddushim
- Framing of the first kasha: in the first version, Abaye would be concerned for two things and R' Zeira for only one.
- Hutza v'dafna is used often in Shas for weaving rough organic material into a fence. The Rebbi corrected himself: hutza is palm branches (lulvei dekel) and dafna is bay leaves.
- These are small, bite-sized kashas that question the whole premise of using an animal as a wall.
- Death matters even when the animal is hung, because a dead animal dries out and shrinks. If it was exactly the shiur, it loses that small amount.
Unclear in recording
- Opening remarks of the shiur.
- Remark about three tefachim from the ground depending on the animal.
- Discussion of exactly how the woven fence is attached between the legs.
- Exchange about 'look in the next chapter'.
Drafted from the recording of the shiur, for chazarah. Torah terms follow the Rebbi’s own words; anything that could not be made out is marked “unclear in recording”. Tap a time to hear that point. Corrections welcome.